{"id":3198,"date":"2015-09-26T03:15:29","date_gmt":"2015-09-26T02:15:29","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/emilkirkegaard.dk\/da\/?p=3198"},"modified":"2015-09-26T03:15:29","modified_gmt":"2015-09-26T02:15:29","slug":"demografiens-skaebne-for-bla-blok","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/emilkirkegaard.dk\/da\/?p=3198","title":{"rendered":"Demografiens sk\u00e6bne for bl\u00e5 blok"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Ole Birk Olesen skriver p\u00e5 Facebook:<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/emilkirkegaard.dk\/da\/wp-content\/uploads\/obo.png\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-3199\" src=\"http:\/\/emilkirkegaard.dk\/da\/wp-content\/uploads\/obo.png\" alt=\"obo\" width=\"728\" height=\"851\" srcset=\"https:\/\/emilkirkegaard.dk\/da\/wp-content\/uploads\/obo.png 728w, https:\/\/emilkirkegaard.dk\/da\/wp-content\/uploads\/obo-257x300.png 257w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 728px) 100vw, 728px\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/photo.php?fbid=10153181261198034&amp;set=a.106972563033.98805.621783033&amp;type=3&amp;permPage=1\">Direkte link.<\/a><\/p>\n<p>Alts\u00e5, han argumenterer for at gamle partier vil f\u00e5 mindre magt i fremtiden fordi at unge stemmer oftere p\u00e5 de nye partier. For at n\u00e5 den konklusion m\u00e5 man antage at de personer som er unge nu ikke n\u00e5r de blir \u00e6ndre vil stemme p\u00e5 de gamle partier. Alts\u00e5, OBO antager en <em>cohort effekt\u00a0<\/em>(generationseffekt) i stedet for en alderseffekt. Jeg fors\u00f8gte at google mig til at en simpel forklaring jeg kunne linke til eller embedde, men fandt ikke nogen (skidt!). Der er dog <a href=\"http:\/\/www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov\/pmc\/articles\/PMC3469580\/\">en r\u00e6kke papers<\/a> som forklarer det relativt p\u00e6dagogisk hvis man har sans for statistik. Meget kort fortalt s\u00e5 er cohort effekter af at v\u00e6re f\u00f8dt p\u00e5 et givet tidspunkt, mens alderseffekt er effekten af ens alder.<\/p>\n<p>Anyway, OBO har nok ret i at der er tale delvist om en cohort effekt. Det kan man dog ikke konkludere ud fra de data han bruger alene fordi de er <a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Cross-sectional_study\">cross-sectional design<\/a>. Det kr\u00e6ver at man har et <a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Cohort_study\">cohort design<\/a>. Hvis man kun har cross-sectional data, s\u00e5 kan man ikke se om forskellen p\u00e5 unge og \u00e6ldre skyldes alder eller at de er f\u00f8dt p\u00e5 forskellige tidspunkter.<\/p>\n<p>Siden at OBOs pointe var at der sker \u00e6ndringer s\u00e5ledes at flere vil stemme p\u00e5 bl\u00e5 blok, s\u00e5 t\u00e6nkte jeg at det var v\u00e6rd at se p\u00e5 to andre faktorer som peger i den anden retning. <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/olebirkolesen\/posts\/10153181262813034?comment_id=10153181559098034&amp;offset=0&amp;total_comments=19&amp;comment_tracking={%22tn%22%3A%22R%22}\">Jeg skrev et svar p\u00e5 Facebook til ham<\/a> og nedenfor ses en redigeret, mere fyldestg\u00f8rende udgave.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Indvandrere og politik<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Demografi er sk\u00e6bne som man siger. Hertil er der to fakta som er s\u00e6rligt relevante:<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>Indvandrere stemmer meget r\u00f8dt (DF ekskluderet). I retning af 80-90%.<br \/>\n[hvis kun indvandrernes stemmer talte s\u00e5] <a href=\"http:\/\/www.information.dk\/telegram\/222764\">&#8220;ville Socialdemokraterne, SF, De Radikale og Enhedslisten sidde tungt p\u00e5 magten med samlet 169 mandater.&#8221;<\/a> (94.4% r\u00f8d blok ekskl. DF)<br \/>\n<a href=\"http:\/\/nyhederne.tv2.dk\/article.php\/id-43570232:s%C3%A5dan-stemmer-80-pct-af-indvandrerne.html\">&#8220;&#8221;De fleste m\u00e5linger viser, at 80 procent eller mere rent faktisk stemmer til venstre for midten,&#8221; siger Yosef Bhatti&#8221;<\/a> [valgforsker p\u00e5 K\u00f8benhavns Universitet]&#8221;<\/li>\n<li>Antallet af indvandrere stiger betydeligt \u00e5r for \u00e5r.<br \/>\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" src=\"https:\/\/docs.google.com\/spreadsheets\/d\/1ehGKD966_2yiXMZLIJdh8b8qi_zwLW3Humoa3uJRzMY\/pubchart?oid=24375316&amp;format=interactive\" width=\"1243\" height=\"754.5938397129189\" frameborder=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" seamless=\"\"><\/iframe><br \/>\n(<a href=\"https:\/\/docs.google.com\/spreadsheets\/d\/1ehGKD966_2yiXMZLIJdh8b8qi_zwLW3Humoa3uJRzMY\/edit#gid=0\">Talmateriale<\/a>)<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>Af politiske \u00e5rsager har de bl\u00e5 partier en temmelig god grund til at ikke lukke flere indvandrere ind, i hvert fald af den d\u00e5rlige slags. Det sidste skyldes at d\u00e5rlige socio\u00f8konomiske forhold overlapper betydeligt med dem der stemmer r\u00f8dt og indvandrerne klarer sig rimelig d\u00e5rligt til lands. <a href=\"http:\/\/emilkirkegaard.dk\/en\/?p=5263\">L\u00e6s evt. mit og Bo Tranberg&#8217;s paper om navne og S faktor i Danmark<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>Antaget at 80% af indvandrerne stemmer r\u00f8dt (ekskl. DF), s\u00e5 betyder alene demografien i dag at r\u00f8d blok f\u00e5r ca. .8*11.6% = 9.3% af stemmerne. Der er to fejlkilder til det estimat som peger i hver sin retning. For det f\u00f8rste har indvandrerne en lavere stemme% end danskerne. <a href=\"http:\/\/videnskab.dk\/kultur-samfund\/efterkommere-stemmer-lige-sa-lidt-som-indvandrere\">&#8220;N\u00e5r det er tid til at bev\u00e6ge sig hen til skolen eller r\u00e5dhuset og s\u00e6tte sit kryds i stemmeboksen til folketings- eller kommunalvalg, <strong>v\u00e6lger 2 ud af 3 efterkommere af indvandrere i stedet at blive derhjemme<\/strong>. Dermed er stemmeprocenten lige s\u00e5 lav for efterkommere, som den er for indvandrere &#8211; og <strong>kun halvt s\u00e5 stor som stemmeprocent blandt etniske danskere.<\/strong>&#8220;<\/a>. Hvis de tal er rigtige, s\u00e5 er stemme% blandt ikke-danskere 33% og 67% blandt danskere. Vi ved dog at <a href=\"http:\/\/www.ft.dk\/folketinget\/oplysningen\/valg\/valgresultaterdk.aspx\">det rigtige tal for hele befolkningen er ca. 86%<\/a>, s\u00e5 disse tal kan ikke v\u00e6re rigtige, men der er ganske vist en forskel.<\/p>\n<p>For det andet er tallene fra DST underestimater af det rigtige antal ikke-danske fordi at DST bruger en juridisk definition og der sker en konstant konvertering fra kategorien ikke-danskere til danskere (jf. <a href=\"http:\/\/emilkirkegaard.dk\/da\/wp-content\/uploads\/Helmuth-nyborg-2011-the-decay-of-western-civilization-double-relaxed-darwinian-selection1.pdf\">dette paper<\/a> og <a href=\"http:\/\/openpsych.net\/ODP\/2015\/03\/increasing-inequality-in-general-intelligence-and-socioeconomic-status-as-a-result-of-immigration-in-denmark-1980-2014\/\">dette paper<\/a>). Med det i betragtning er ca. 9% af stemmerne nok ikke helt ved siden af, m\u00e5ske lidt mindre.<\/p>\n<p>Hvis vi bruger tallet 9%, s\u00e5 betyder det at bl\u00e5 blok + DF skal have mere ned 50% af stemmerne hos danskerne. <a href=\"http:\/\/www.wolframalpha.com\/input\/?i=9+%2B+%28%281-x%29*93%29+%3D+50%2C+solve+x\">Med en simpel ligning kan man regne ud pr\u00e6cis hvor mange<\/a>, tallet er ca 56%. Alts\u00e5, i takt med at ikke-danskerne udg\u00f8r en stadig st\u00f8rre del af befolkningen, s\u00e5 skal bl\u00e5 blok + DF vinde en stadig st\u00f8rre andel af stemmerne hos danskerne, <em>alt andet lige<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>Lyder det for langt ude? Slet ikke. Det er s\u00e5dan set bare en gentagelse af historien i USA. <a href=\"http:\/\/www.ropercenter.uconn.edu\/polls\/us-elections\/how-groups-voted\/how-groups-voted-2012\/\">P\u00e5 denne side<\/a> kan man se stemmefordeling ved sidste pr\u00e6sidentvalg i USA blandt forskellige demografiske grupper.<\/p>\n<table border=\"0\" cellspacing=\"0\">\n<colgroup span=\"5\" width=\"85\"><\/colgroup>\n<tbody>\n<tr>\n<td align=\"left\" height=\"17\"><b>Category<\/b><\/td>\n<td align=\"left\"><b>Group<\/b><\/td>\n<td align=\"left\"><b>Pct. of population<\/b><\/td>\n<td align=\"left\"><b>Obama%<\/b><\/td>\n<td align=\"left\"><b>Romney%<\/b><\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td align=\"left\" height=\"17\">All Voters<\/td>\n<td align=\"left\"><\/td>\n<td align=\"left\"><\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">51<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">47<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td align=\"left\" height=\"17\">SEX<\/td>\n<td align=\"left\">Men<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">47<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">45<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">52<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td align=\"left\" height=\"17\"><\/td>\n<td align=\"left\">Women<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">53<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">55<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">44<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td align=\"left\" height=\"17\">RACE<\/td>\n<td align=\"left\">White<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">72<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">39<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">59<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td align=\"left\" height=\"17\"><\/td>\n<td align=\"left\">African-American<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">13<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">93<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">6<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td align=\"left\" height=\"17\"><\/td>\n<td align=\"left\">Hispanic<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">10<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">71<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">27<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td align=\"left\" height=\"17\"><\/td>\n<td align=\"left\">Asian<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">3<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">73<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">26<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td align=\"left\" height=\"17\"><\/td>\n<td align=\"left\">Other<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">2<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">58<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">38<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td align=\"left\" height=\"17\">AGE<\/td>\n<td align=\"left\">18-29<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">19<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">60<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">37<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td align=\"left\" height=\"17\"><\/td>\n<td align=\"left\">30-44<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">27<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">52<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">45<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td align=\"left\" height=\"17\"><\/td>\n<td align=\"left\">45-64<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">38<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">47<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">51<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td align=\"left\" height=\"17\"><\/td>\n<td align=\"left\">65 &amp; over<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">16<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">44<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">56<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td align=\"left\" height=\"17\">INCOME<\/td>\n<td align=\"left\">&lt;$50,000<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">41<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">60<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">38<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td align=\"left\" height=\"17\"><\/td>\n<td align=\"left\">$50,000-90,000<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">31<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">46<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">52<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td align=\"left\" height=\"17\"><\/td>\n<td align=\"left\">$100,000 &amp; over<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">28<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">44<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">54<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td align=\"left\" height=\"17\">UNION HOUSEHOLD<\/td>\n<td align=\"left\">Yes<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">18<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">58<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">40<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td align=\"left\" height=\"17\"><\/td>\n<td align=\"left\">No<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">82<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">49<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">48<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td align=\"left\" height=\"17\">EDUCATION<\/td>\n<td align=\"left\">Some HS<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">3<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">64<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">35<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td align=\"left\" height=\"17\"><\/td>\n<td align=\"left\">HS graduate<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">21<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">51<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">48<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td align=\"left\" height=\"17\"><\/td>\n<td align=\"left\">Some college<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">29<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">49<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">48<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td align=\"left\" height=\"17\"><\/td>\n<td align=\"left\">College graduate<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">29<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">47<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">51<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td align=\"left\" height=\"17\"><\/td>\n<td align=\"left\">Postgraduate study<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">18<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">55<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">42<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td align=\"left\" height=\"17\">PARTY<\/td>\n<td align=\"left\">Democratic<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">38<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">92<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">7<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td align=\"left\" height=\"17\"><\/td>\n<td align=\"left\">Republican<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">32<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">6<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">93<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td align=\"left\" height=\"17\"><\/td>\n<td align=\"left\">Independent<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">29<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">45<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">50<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td align=\"left\" height=\"17\">POLITICAL PHILOSOPHY<\/td>\n<td align=\"left\">Liberal<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">25<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">86<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">11<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td align=\"left\" height=\"17\"><\/td>\n<td align=\"left\">Moderate<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">41<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">56<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">41<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td align=\"left\" height=\"17\"><\/td>\n<td align=\"left\">Conservative<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">35<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">17<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">82<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td align=\"left\" height=\"17\">MOST IMPORTANT ISSUES<\/td>\n<td align=\"left\">Economy<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">59<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">47<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">51<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td align=\"left\" height=\"17\"><\/td>\n<td align=\"left\">Budget deficit<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">15<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">32<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">66<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td align=\"left\" height=\"17\"><\/td>\n<td align=\"left\">Foreign policy<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">5<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">56<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">33<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<tr>\n<td align=\"left\" height=\"17\"><\/td>\n<td align=\"left\">Health care<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">18<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">75<\/td>\n<td align=\"right\">24<\/td>\n<\/tr>\n<\/tbody>\n<\/table>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Stemmefordelingen blandt europ\u00e6ere (&#8220;White&#8221;) var 39% vs. 59%, Obama vs. Romney, eller ca. 60% bl\u00e5t og han tabte stadig fordi fx afrikanere (&#8220;African American&#8221;) stemte 93% vs. 6%, Hispanics stemte 71% vs. 27%.<\/p>\n<p>Det er den samme udvikling man g\u00e5r i m\u00f8de herhjemme. I den forstand kunne det v\u00e6re at Liberal Alliance skulle holde op med at snakke om \u00e5bne gr\u00e6nser. \u00c5bne gr\u00e6nser vil f\u00f8re til r\u00f8dt flertal. Hvis kasserne er lukkede (eller relativt lukkede) til at starte med, s\u00e5 kan de hurtigt \u00e5bnes n\u00e5r der er r\u00f8dt flertal.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Ole Birk Olesen skriver p\u00e5 Facebook: Direkte link. Alts\u00e5, han argumenterer for at gamle partier vil f\u00e5 mindre magt i fremtiden fordi at unge stemmer oftere p\u00e5 de nye partier. For at n\u00e5 den konklusion m\u00e5 man antage at de personer som er unge nu ikke n\u00e5r de blir \u00e6ndre vil stemme p\u00e5 de gamle [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":4,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1711],"tags":[1745,1744,1688,1746,1355],"class_list":["post-3198","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-politik-videnskab-og-lign","tag-bla-blok","tag-demografi","tag-indvandrere","tag-rod-blok","tag-valg"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/emilkirkegaard.dk\/da\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3198","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/emilkirkegaard.dk\/da\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/emilkirkegaard.dk\/da\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/emilkirkegaard.dk\/da\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/4"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/emilkirkegaard.dk\/da\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=3198"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/emilkirkegaard.dk\/da\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3198\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":3200,"href":"https:\/\/emilkirkegaard.dk\/da\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3198\/revisions\/3200"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/emilkirkegaard.dk\/da\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=3198"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/emilkirkegaard.dk\/da\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=3198"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/emilkirkegaard.dk\/da\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=3198"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}