<\/p>\n
Over at FRDB we recently discussed whether propositions are objective (i.e. exist independent of any mind). Usually, I prefer to take a nominalist approach, but in this thread I decided to assume the role of a platonist.<\/p>\n
Physicalist, a nominalist, wrote that:<\/p>\n
[…] the proposition “the universe exists” did not exist before there were conscious agents.1<\/sup><\/a><\/p>\n I attempted to argue that this was wrong. Here’s my argument:<\/p>\n D:x \u2261 things<\/p>\n Px \u2261 x is a proposition<\/p>\n Tx \u2261 x is true<\/p>\n Wx \u2261 x was true<\/p>\n Bx \u2261 x was true before there were any conscious agents<\/p>\n Ex \u2261 x existed before there were conscious agents<\/p>\n 1. There is at least one x such that x was a true before there were conscious agents.<\/p>\n (\u2203x)(Bx)<\/p>\n 2. For all x, if x was true before there were conscious beings, then x was true and x existed before there were conscious agents.<\/p>\n (\u2200x)(Bx\u2192Wx\u2227Ex)<\/p>\n 3. Therefore, There is at least one x such that x was true before there were conscious beings, then x was true and x existed before there were conscious agents. (From 1, 2)<\/p>\n \u22a2 (\u2203x)(Wx\u2227Ex)<\/p>\n 4. For all x, if x was true, then x is a proposition. (Premise)<\/p>\n (\u2200x)(Wx\u2192Px)<\/p>\n 5. Therefore, There is at least one x such that x was true and x existed before there were conscious agents and x is a proposition. (3, 4)<\/p>\n \u22a2 (\u2203x)(Wx\u2227Ex\u2227Px)<\/p>\n (5) is incompatible with the view that propositions are mind-dependent.2<\/sup><\/a><\/p>\n But I think LukeS nailed the equivocation on which the argument “rested” when he wrote:<\/p>\n No, possible strawman, I think he said there were facts (things), not truths (statement fact relations). So it would be proper to say “it was a fact that…” but not “it was true that…”.<\/p>\n Using technical definitions talk of facts and truths is not equivalent.3<\/sup><\/a><\/p>\n So, so far, no platonism (relative to the problem of universals) for me.<\/p>\n 1<\/a>http:\/\/www.freeratio.org\/showthread.php?p=5848257#post5848257<\/a><\/p>\n 2<\/a>http:\/\/www.freeratio.org\/showthread.php?p=5848354#post5848354<\/a><\/p>\n 3<\/a>http:\/\/www.freeratio.org\/showthread.php?p=5848365#post5848365<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":" Over at FRDB we recently discussed whether propositions are objective (i.e. exist independent of any mind). Usually, I prefer to take a nominalist approach, but in this thread I decided to assume the role of a platonist. Physicalist, a nominalist, wrote that: […] the proposition “the universe exists” did not exist before there were conscious […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":17,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[8],"tags":[856,973,1013,1343],"class_list":["post-1173","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-philosophy","tag-nominalist","tag-platonism","tag-problem-of-universals","tag-universals","entry"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/emilkirkegaard.dk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1173","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/emilkirkegaard.dk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/emilkirkegaard.dk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/emilkirkegaard.dk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/17"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/emilkirkegaard.dk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1173"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/emilkirkegaard.dk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1173\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/emilkirkegaard.dk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1173"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/emilkirkegaard.dk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=1173"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/emilkirkegaard.dk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=1173"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}