{"id":4316,"date":"2014-09-29T17:48:34","date_gmt":"2014-09-29T16:48:34","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/emilkirkegaard.dk\/en\/?p=4316"},"modified":"2014-10-14T19:39:05","modified_gmt":"2014-10-14T18:39:05","slug":"predatory-journals","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/emilkirkegaard.dk\/en\/2014\/09\/predatory-journals\/","title":{"rendered":"Predatory journals"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>I had my first Twitter controversy. So:<\/p>\n<div class=\"oceanwp-oembed-wrap clr\">\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\" data-width=\"550\" data-dnt=\"true\">\n<p lang=\"en\" dir=\"ltr\"><a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/StuartJRitchie?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@StuartJRitchie<\/a> <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/FrontiersIn?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@FrontiersIn<\/a> is a predatory open access journal. Publication fee is 1600\u20ac <a href=\"http:\/\/t.co\/zxdCppVR0J\">http:\/\/t.co\/zxdCppVR0J<\/a> <a href=\"https:\/\/t.co\/BUCXliIXwG\">https:\/\/t.co\/BUCXliIXwG<\/a><\/p>\n<p>&mdash; Emil O W Kirkegaard (@KirkegaardEmil) <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/KirkegaardEmil\/status\/515857830524768256?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">September 27, 2014<\/a><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><script async src=\"https:\/\/platform.twitter.com\/widgets.js\" charset=\"utf-8\"><\/script><\/div>\n<div class=\"oceanwp-oembed-wrap clr\">\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\" data-width=\"550\" data-dnt=\"true\">\n<p lang=\"en\" dir=\"ltr\"><a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/KirkegaardEmil?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@KirkegaardEmil<\/a> <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/StuartJRitchie?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@StuartJRitchie<\/a> you do realize that you are paying ~5000 per article for &#39;normal&#39; journals? Nothing predatory about it<\/p>\n<p>&mdash; rogier kievit (@rogierK) <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/rogierK\/status\/516162369350008832?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">September 28, 2014<\/a><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><script async src=\"https:\/\/platform.twitter.com\/widgets.js\" charset=\"utf-8\"><\/script><\/div>\n<p>I pointed out in the reply to this, that they don&#8217;t actually charge that much normally. <a href=\"http:\/\/openpsych.net\/how-does-openpsych-compare-to-rival-journals\/\">The comparison is here<\/a>. The prices are around 500-3000 USD, with an average (eyeballed) around 2500 USD.<\/p>\n<p>Now, this is just a factual error, so not so bad. However&#8230;<\/p>\n<div class=\"oceanwp-oembed-wrap clr\">\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\" data-width=\"550\" data-dnt=\"true\">\n<p lang=\"en\" dir=\"ltr\"><a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/StuartJRitchie?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@StuartJRitchie<\/a> <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/ceptional?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@ceptional<\/a> <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/rogierK?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@rogierK<\/a> <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/KirkegaardEmil?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@KirkegaardEmil<\/a> Completely unethical to call Frontiers predatory. You should be ashamed, young sir.<\/p>\n<p>&mdash; Dani\u00ebl Lakens (@lakens) <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/lakens\/status\/516182460871499776?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">September 28, 2014<\/a><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><script async src=\"https:\/\/platform.twitter.com\/widgets.js\" charset=\"utf-8\"><\/script><\/div>\n<div class=\"oceanwp-oembed-wrap clr\">\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\" data-width=\"550\" data-dnt=\"true\">\n<p lang=\"en\" dir=\"ltr\"><a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/KirkegaardEmil?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@KirkegaardEmil<\/a> <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/StuartJRitchie?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@StuartJRitchie<\/a> this comment shows you understand nothing about the publication ecosystem. I&#39;d read some things first.<\/p>\n<p>&mdash; rogier kievit (@rogierK) <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/rogierK\/status\/516195737504612353?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">September 28, 2014<\/a><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><script async src=\"https:\/\/platform.twitter.com\/widgets.js\" charset=\"utf-8\"><\/script><\/div>\n<div class=\"oceanwp-oembed-wrap clr\">\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\" data-width=\"550\" data-dnt=\"true\">\n<p lang=\"en\" dir=\"ltr\"><a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/KirkegaardEmil?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@KirkegaardEmil<\/a> <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/StuartJRitchie?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@StuartJRitchie<\/a> <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/ceptional?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@ceptional<\/a> <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/rogierK?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@rogierK<\/a> Is that all the formal reasoning behind your accusation you can muster? Not impressed.<\/p>\n<p>&mdash; Dani\u00ebl Lakens (@lakens) <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/lakens\/status\/516203460900175872?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">September 28, 2014<\/a><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><script async src=\"https:\/\/platform.twitter.com\/widgets.js\" charset=\"utf-8\"><\/script><\/div>\n<div class=\"oceanwp-oembed-wrap clr\">\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\" data-width=\"550\" data-dnt=\"true\">\n<p lang=\"en\" dir=\"ltr\"><a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/KirkegaardEmil?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@KirkegaardEmil<\/a> <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/StuartJRitchie?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@StuartJRitchie<\/a> Sure, having a journal with 10 non-indexed publications (<a href=\"http:\/\/t.co\/WgsnePDva3\">http:\/\/t.co\/WgsnePDva3<\/a>) is cheap.<\/p>\n<p>&mdash; Dani\u00ebl Lakens (@lakens) <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/lakens\/status\/516210305039613952?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">September 28, 2014<\/a><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><script async src=\"https:\/\/platform.twitter.com\/widgets.js\" charset=\"utf-8\"><\/script><\/div>\n<p>If anyone is wondering why he is so emotional, he gave the answer himself:<\/p>\n<div class=\"oceanwp-oembed-wrap clr\">\n<blockquote class=\"twitter-tweet\" data-width=\"550\" data-dnt=\"true\">\n<p lang=\"en\" dir=\"ltr\"><a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/rubenarslan?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@rubenarslan<\/a> <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/StuartJRitchie?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@StuartJRitchie<\/a> <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/ceptional?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@ceptional<\/a> <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/rogierK?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">@rogierK<\/a> As assoc. editor I&#39;ve recommended the editor to reject based on reviews. Was possible.<\/p>\n<p>&mdash; Dani\u00ebl Lakens (@lakens) <a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/lakens\/status\/516187083812388864?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw\">September 28, 2014<\/a><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><script async src=\"https:\/\/platform.twitter.com\/widgets.js\" charset=\"utf-8\"><\/script><\/div>\n<p><strong>A very brief history of journals and science<\/strong><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>Science starts out involving few individuals.<\/li>\n<li>They need a way to communicate ideas.<\/li>\n<li>They set up journals to distribute the ideas on paper.<\/li>\n<li>Printing costs money, so they cost money to buy.<\/li>\n<li>Due to limitations of paper space, there needs to be some selection in what gets printed, which falls on the editor. Fast forward to perhaps 1950&#8217;s, now there are too many papers for the editors to handle, and so they delegate the job of deciding what to accept to other academics (reviewers). In the system, academics write papers, they edit them, and review them. All for free.<\/li>\n<li>Fast forward to perhaps 1990 and what happens is that big business takes over the running of the journals so academics can focus on science. As it does, the prices rise becus of monetary interests.<\/li>\n<li>Academics are reluctant to give up publishing in and buying journals becus their reputation system is built on publishing in said journals. I.e. the system is inherently conservatively biased (<a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Status_quo_bias\">Status quo bias<\/a>). It is perfect for business to make money from.<\/li>\n<li>Now along comes the internet which means that publishing does not need to rely on paper. This means that marginal printing cost is very close to 0. Yet the journals keep demanding high prices becus academia is reliant on them becus they are the source of the reputation system.<\/li>\n<li>There is a growing movement in academia that this is a bad situation for science, and that publications shud be openly available (open access movement). New OA journals are set up. However, since they are also either for-profit or crypto for-profit, in order to make money they charge outrageous amounts of money (say, anything above 100 USD) to publish some text+figures on a website. Academics still provide nearly all the work for free, yet they have to pay enormous amounts of money to publish, while the publisher provides a mere website (and perhaps some copyediting etc.).<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>Who thinks that is a good solution? It is clearly a smart business move. For instance, popular OA metajournal Frontiers are owned by Nature Publishing Group. This company thus very neatly both makes money off their legacy journals and the new challenger journals.<\/p>\n<p>The solution is to set up journals run by academics again now that the internet makes this rather easy and cheap. The profit motive is bad for science and just results in <a href=\"https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Predatory_open_access_publishing\">even worse journals<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>As for my claim, I stand by it. Altho in retrospect, the more correct term is parasitic. Publishers are a middleman exploiting the the fact that academia relies on established journals for reputation.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>I had my first Twitter controversy. So: @StuartJRitchie @FrontiersIn is a predatory open access journal. Publication fee is 1600\u20ac http:\/\/t.co\/zxdCppVR0J https:\/\/t.co\/BUCXliIXwG &mdash; Emil O W Kirkegaard (@KirkegaardEmil) September 27, 2014 @KirkegaardEmil @StuartJRitchie you do realize that you are paying ~5000 per article for &#39;normal&#39; journals? Nothing predatory about it &mdash; rogier kievit (@rogierK) September 28, [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":17,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1879,1673,1935,1107],"tags":[1960,1970,1764,1765,1972,1971,1954],"class_list":["post-4316","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-education-politik","category-science-philosophy","category-science-politik","category-science","tag-academia","tag-journals","tag-open-access","tag-open-science","tag-parasitic","tag-predatory","tag-publishing","entry"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/emilkirkegaard.dk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4316","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/emilkirkegaard.dk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/emilkirkegaard.dk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/emilkirkegaard.dk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/17"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/emilkirkegaard.dk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=4316"}],"version-history":[{"count":4,"href":"https:\/\/emilkirkegaard.dk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4316\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":4429,"href":"https:\/\/emilkirkegaard.dk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4316\/revisions\/4429"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/emilkirkegaard.dk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=4316"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/emilkirkegaard.dk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=4316"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/emilkirkegaard.dk\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=4316"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}